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Roleplay: How Evil Is Too Evil?

Discussion in 'General LarpCraft Game Chat' started by Wiktor Kostka, Nov 27, 2017.

  1. Wiktor Kostka

    Wiktor Kostka Retired Warrior Myths & Legends 2017 Waivers Epic Profile

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    I have been doing some kind of medieval based "larp" for 35+ years. All has been based on honor and chivalry. This is my first time in the realm of fantasy beyond the D&D table. How do you deal with an evil aligned character? Medieval times would deal with it was death and banishment. And if for some reason it was not you would have little or nothing to do with this person, unless they were of high rank. So how does one deal with their idea of what would be proper and permanent action?
     
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  2. King Murdoch McArthur

    King Murdoch McArthur LarpCraft of Milwaukee Host, chevalier paladin Natus Gryphe Lore Master LarpCraft Host Transferred Character Myths & Legends 2017 Waivers Elder Epic Profile Lifetime Award

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    How do i deal with evil charaters, in chaaracter...i usually end up killing them eventually. And they will give you ampel reason and opportunity.

    But yes the culture is very very different and abset anything to cause a consequence of their actions for quite some time everyone save a few up here were kinda diet-evil to out right homicidal.
    Most were vaugly selfish lying self serving theif types. So they could be intimidated fairly eaisly or coerced in to doing theing for their onwn benefit. The others, you just had to wtzch you back and keep your firnds handy. Things are different now up here. One doe not do harm to others with impunity anymore.

    The long answer is very long. BUt the BIGGEST diff is that the culture (and this is in MANY larps) is not based on honor and cooperative rolplay and or chivalry, it's based on how do i get the most loot and or kill pther people and not get in trouble. It creates the "murder hobo" as we call it.

    Ya gotta have bad guys, but when EVERYONE is a bad guy it's just chaos and rage quitting.
     
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  3. Wiktor Kostka

    Wiktor Kostka Retired Warrior Myths & Legends 2017 Waivers Epic Profile

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    to me that is what NPC's are for. Here I heard of a character that was known to enslave and eat children. to me that is a kill on sight, not a character back ground. you work hand in hand with demons = kill on sight. known to be a thief = take to trial and if guilty hang.
    Now NPC is were you can be anything and let things roleplay out. Now I have had some fun long term evil D&D characters, but even then, hiding your evil or just being that much more of a bad *** would still be necessary.
     
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  4. King Murdoch McArthur

    King Murdoch McArthur LarpCraft of Milwaukee Host, chevalier paladin Natus Gryphe Lore Master LarpCraft Host Transferred Character Myths & Legends 2017 Waivers Elder Epic Profile Lifetime Award

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    I agree, You'd make a fine paladin :)

    The other problem is that people who more or less want to screw over other players will often play evil charaters to have the excuse to behave how they want. People refer to it as bleed but i have often found that many of the vaugely selfish **** type villians (loot from kids kills, lie all the time, constantly target newbs to kill and loot) play that way no matter whatthe charater is and when they play villians they use it to abuse other players far too often. Far too often players would murder hobo and steal from other players, then when they had to deal with reprocussions howls of "its not fair" "everyone ganged up on me" "your forcing your game play style on me" boo hoo hoo. Plus there was actual bleed where players who were doing things like that, then complaining and lamenting in real life and going wildly out of game accusing people who pushed back against their charater of everything from cheating to trying to beat them up etc etc etc. Then when caught in their lies...they would claim they ment it to be in game.

    Short version is ya gotta have villians and people can play how they want...but you often reap what you sow and people need to accept that actions have cosequences even in game.
     
  5. Wiktor Kostka

    Wiktor Kostka Retired Warrior Myths & Legends 2017 Waivers Epic Profile

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    I don't think it is a paladin thing, I think it is a good or evil, if you disrupt society you get dealt with.
     
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  6. King Murdoch McArthur

    King Murdoch McArthur LarpCraft of Milwaukee Host, chevalier paladin Natus Gryphe Lore Master LarpCraft Host Transferred Character Myths & Legends 2017 Waivers Elder Epic Profile Lifetime Award

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    Too many people don't get that. Too many people want no consequences for their in game actions
     
  7. Wiktor Kostka

    Wiktor Kostka Retired Warrior Myths & Legends 2017 Waivers Epic Profile

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    well, I guess my roleplay may put a kink in some peoples roleplay.
     
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  8. Drake Grim

    Drake Grim Warrior Myths & Legends 2017 Waivers Epic Profile '17 Old Waiver

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    you could be a vigilante
     
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  9. Wiktor Kostka

    Wiktor Kostka Retired Warrior Myths & Legends 2017 Waivers Epic Profile

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    Vigilante would be an interesting roleplay. But I want to be a retired warrior that tries to stay out of conflict. But if I did get involved it would be in the open and not in secret.

    Being new to LARP I am talking more about how different things are dealt with within the realm of roleplay in the system of Larpcraft. I don't want my view or actions to disrupt the game as a whole. I would think that it is in part everyone's job to roleplay who they want but within a way that adds to the game for everyone and not just try to screw with the game to get XP and loot. that should mean that you can disagree and act contrary to a group, but not to the point that it pisses people off and breaks the fantasy of the game.

    Just trying to find the accepted boundaries.
     
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  10. Drake Grim

    Drake Grim Warrior Myths & Legends 2017 Waivers Epic Profile '17 Old Waiver

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    i see

    but playing as a mercenary is fun
    or vigilante
    or town guard
    or a chaotic good character
     
  11. Wiktor Kostka

    Wiktor Kostka Retired Warrior Myths & Legends 2017 Waivers Epic Profile

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    As I understand it so far, the rules let people, and some what protects them to interpret the boundaries themselves. And I assume that means if I feel someone is pushing my boundaries I can push back,... to a point.
     
  12. Wiktor Kostka

    Wiktor Kostka Retired Warrior Myths & Legends 2017 Waivers Epic Profile

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    I do think they all sound like cool characters, and would be neat to play. even being a bad guy I can see being fun.

    But action should have consequence. That also means if you are a good or bad guy out numbered by the other guys, you should think your actions through and except the consequences and not be protected by saying "its ok it is just my character, you should let me do what I want"
     
  13. Drake Grim

    Drake Grim Warrior Myths & Legends 2017 Waivers Epic Profile '17 Old Waiver

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    i agree but if people just kill you and not let you play your character then thats not fun at all
     
  14. Wiktor Kostka

    Wiktor Kostka Retired Warrior Myths & Legends 2017 Waivers Epic Profile

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    On the same line of thought, say your character is a orc warrior, and you are in an open war with the elves. Then you go to an event to find out it is an adventure to solve an elven mystery to help the elven kind. And you are the only orc at the event. your character may not attack in a situation that you can see you are so out numbered it would just mean your death, but in game terms how would you be part of something that your character would never do. would it be "find out about the event first and just don't go" "die a glorious death" "only play an NPC" or" just stick to your camp and sulk"
    and if you did die and there was no one that would resurrect you are "you permanently dead", "do you start a new character over from scratch"," does any XP transfer to the new character"?
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2017
  15. Wiktor Kostka

    Wiktor Kostka Retired Warrior Myths & Legends 2017 Waivers Epic Profile

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    but is one persons not having fun worth everyone else not having fun because "I am just playing my character"?
     
  16. Drake Grim

    Drake Grim Warrior Myths & Legends 2017 Waivers Epic Profile '17 Old Waiver

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    im saying everyone should have fun but if you live in a group full of murder hobos it gets hard to play a merchant for example
     
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  17. Wiktor Kostka

    Wiktor Kostka Retired Warrior Myths & Legends 2017 Waivers Epic Profile

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    and I think murdering hobos should be fine with being murdered in return. and if they get their feelings hurt and want to complain, I don't have the power to talk to the dead so I would not hear it.
     
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  18. Maliostro Cavaldi

    Maliostro Cavaldi Human Bard -{LarpCraft of Superior Host}- LarpCraft Host Myths & Legends 2017 Legendary Membership 2017 Waivers Elder '17 Old Waiver

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    Social interaction has certain "economies of scale" in that it's hard to play a concept (good or bad) that has trouble fitting in at small games. If you are trying to play a virtuous character in groups that are morally challenged, you will be left outside just as much as if you decided to play evil or an outsider race or concept at a game about trust and community. Very hard to do this at small games. At larger games, where there are multiple camps, and hopefully multiple plots and modules, it easier to play different agendas. At smaller games it's much harder to do this, especially when there's just one campsite where everyone must share lodging. Real world logistics can force conflation of how characters must interact.

    The vision in LC is that plots are meant to be very much character driven. But I think the more "nordic" we become, and the more character driven the stories are, that increases the importance of addressing character bleed. I think that makes it very important we have formal OOC debriefs at the end of games, to remind ourselves we are playing a game, we are here to have fun, and that we are not our characters.

    Also, crime and punishment takes on a very different context in Myths and Legends than it does in the real world. Threat of Pain of Death carries much less weight when a character can be resurrected and walking around a couple hours after their execution. Likewise, you be the most clever murderer walking the streets since Jack the Ripper, and yet your victims can be back to life as if waking from a bad dream and seeking revenge. It can make things a bit ridiculous.
     
  19. Drake Grim

    Drake Grim Warrior Myths & Legends 2017 Waivers Epic Profile '17 Old Waiver

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    you have a point mal
    my mom says in our group its hard to play her character because its full of monsters and bandits to the point where when i left the tavern i had 6 people chasing me
     
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  20. King Murdoch McArthur

    King Murdoch McArthur LarpCraft of Milwaukee Host, chevalier paladin Natus Gryphe Lore Master LarpCraft Host Transferred Character Myths & Legends 2017 Waivers Elder Epic Profile Lifetime Award

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    What i am hearing from Mal is, make death more of a deturrent (which will cut down on murderhoboing in and of itself) and b we need more people so recruit recruit recruit.

    And what Drake describes is just miserable for most people to play in and leads to rage quitting. IE what we are seeing lately in general.
     
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  21. Wiktor Kostka

    Wiktor Kostka Retired Warrior Myths & Legends 2017 Waivers Epic Profile

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    so what happens if you die and you at resurrected, and what happens if no one resurrects you that day/event? (in rule terms not roleplay terms)
     
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  22. Maliostro Cavaldi

    Maliostro Cavaldi Human Bard -{LarpCraft of Superior Host}- LarpCraft Host Myths & Legends 2017 Legendary Membership 2017 Waivers Elder '17 Old Waiver

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    I can't remember if it is in a passage in the M&L rulebook, or if it was an official ruling elsewhere, (and I'm too lazy/hangry to look it up now) but I do recall there was a ruling that at the big multiday events, if your character was dead and not raised by the time game was called, your character was considered permadead. And I think this ruling may have actually lead to exploits where people tried to poison characters last minute to inflict permadeath. I could be wrong on that last part. THIS IS HOW RUMORS GET SPREAD, DANG IT!

    Death can be a hard mechanic to balance, and nothing can make people more upset than seeing a beloved character die. At the same time, Death needs to have a sting. It does to a certain extent, simply as a game mechanic because you are likely to get looted, and you have to spend your gaming time arranging for resurrection. So those are sort of metagame consequences as they are inconvenient to the player. But when discussing terms of Good and Evil, Crime and Punishment invariably becomes part of the conversation. And in medieval societies, most crimes were punished by death. And when death is more of a Get-Out-of-Jail-For-Free effect mechanics wise, because restraint and incarceration are more inconvenient to the player, something needs to be addressed to make it feared as a consequence of actions.

    Whether playing good or evil, fostering COMMUNITY is the best way to address bleed. LC and Myths and Legends promotes character driven game play. The system strives to be more immersive by having a simple to learn rules set, that avoids using marshals or game masters or "black shirt brigades" for running events. The vision is to gear things towards staying in character and making the mechanics as invisible as possible. These are laudable goals. But they do also create a difficulty. Many times, Hosts and Elders are playing their own characters. Not NPCs but their own characters. And this can create situations where players can see the elder teams as promoting agendas that benefit the elder team's characters, rather than acting as impartial hosts and judges wanting everyone to have fun. I think this is something significant that needs addressed, because I believe this may have been an element within the system that has contributed to the recent spate of chapters seceding from the community. Whether I am playing Maliostro as Good, Evil, or Indifferent, a conflict with my character should not carry over to a conflict with me as a host and arbiter of the game. So I think that is why it is important to address "bleed" as they say, because it can cover a lot of elements. Coming together as -friends- who enjoy role playing, and wanting everyone to enjoy the role playing experience because we are friends, goes a long way to putting faith in the social contract that we are here to role play and explore and we are granting each other the freedom to explore.
     
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  23. Wiktor Kostka

    Wiktor Kostka Retired Warrior Myths & Legends 2017 Waivers Epic Profile

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    Being new to LARP, but decades of reenactment, I paid for a character transfer. If I got killed and lost everything, I would be a little pissed off. But I agree there needs to be something that stings.
    my first thought is that you lose the use of a number of skills, or a loss of X points (and skills associated with them). But you only lose it for a time , say a week or two, for permadeath, and a day or two if resurrected. This would allow you to still play ( permadeath would need to be handled different for the event at hand), keep your beloved character, still gain XP.
    After the time limit the gods intervene or some roleplay and all is back to normal.
    just an idea.
     
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  24. Drake Grim

    Drake Grim Warrior Myths & Legends 2017 Waivers Epic Profile '17 Old Waiver

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    well the thing that scares me is that im gonna be the person to get permakilled next event i go to

    no one likes drake so in my group nobody wants to help/heal him and the people that can heal/help him dont we have few healers so its kinda hard
    it just scares me that when i go to my next event in averen im gonna get killed permanently

    and i cant afford to make a new account/character cuz im broke
     
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  25. Neztus Der'Mon

    Neztus Der'Mon Warrior Myths & Legends 2017 Waivers Elder Epic Profile '17 Old Waiver

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    I really want to go to an averen event.
     
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  26. Drake Grim

    Drake Grim Warrior Myths & Legends 2017 Waivers Epic Profile '17 Old Waiver

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    it may just be my family that gets killed all the time i dont know we dont have enough members

    but to me thats how i see averen
     
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  27. King Murdoch McArthur

    King Murdoch McArthur LarpCraft of Milwaukee Host, chevalier paladin Natus Gryphe Lore Master LarpCraft Host Transferred Character Myths & Legends 2017 Waivers Elder Epic Profile Lifetime Award

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    Let us know when the event is... you do have some friends. And we have played a time or two before...and we don't want our buddy drake killedded
     
  28. Drake Grim

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    i want my own revenge give my time......(laughs cruely)
     
  29. King Murdoch McArthur

    King Murdoch McArthur LarpCraft of Milwaukee Host, chevalier paladin Natus Gryphe Lore Master LarpCraft Host Transferred Character Myths & Legends 2017 Waivers Elder Epic Profile Lifetime Award

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    Revenege is Justice's angrier sister....sometimes she's also hotter lol
     
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  30. Drake Grim

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    i agree she is hotter
     

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